Wednesday, December 30

Most common model choices for me...

So looking back on my theme lists, i can see that there are a few models that i heavily favor. Just as an intellectual exercise, im going to figure out what these are:

Wardog x 9
Beast-09 x 5
Juggernaut x 5
Behemoth x 3
Drago x 3
Destroyer x 2

Winter Guard Mortar Crew x 12
Manhunter x 8
Doom Reavers x 5
Widowmakers x 4
Ogrun Bokur x 3
Great Bears of Gallowswood x 3
Greylord Ternion x 3
Koldun Lord x 3
Iron Fang Pikemen x 2
>Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard x 2
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew x 2
Man-o-war Shocktroopers x 2
Battle Mechaniks x 2
Kossite Woodsmen x 2
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios x 2
Winter Guard Infantry
>3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeer
>Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
Kayazy Assassins
>Kayazy Assassin Underboss
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Iron Fang Uhlans
Man-o-war Demolition Corps
Kovnik Markov
Yuri the Axe

So - looks like im in love with Beast 09 - and at 1 point, the Wardog makes a lot of my lists. Im not really using anything other than the battlebox Jacks and the characters, except for a Zerker and a Kodiak in a list. Im also besotted with Mortars, but hey, what true son of the motherland isnt? Manhunters and Doomreavers are next, probably because everyone needs some hardhitting Weaponmasters to really bulk out a list. The Widowmakers feature regularly, as dedicated troop killers they combine with Weaponmasters for a good combined arms strategem. The Ogrun Bokur is a must for defence with certain casters, and the Great Bears are just a brutal unit that can tango with elite troops or Warjacks/Beasts with equal ease. Im not using many units, and even though Yuri is awesome I cant seem to fit him in many lists.

Now - most importantly - what models am i not using??

Ill see if i can figure them out - and why I might not be using them for my armies:

Decimator - well, the rules havent been properly released for him yet, and i dont own one. So im going to give this one a "?" until i can get a feel for it. Personally, i dont find him that appealling. Beat Back on a 10" RNG gun is lame. Maybe if the gun was 12"? Id like it more.

Devastator - this guy is an enigma. I think its a really cool concept, probably worth the points, but it just doesnt have a place in my lists. I have a feeling that i dont need an ARM25 jack. I have lots of ARM20 jacks. They are pretty damn tough anyway. Rain of Death is nice, if i didnt have Beast 09 and Thresher. And apart from ARM25 and RoD theres nothing else interesting about the Devastator. Maybe Karchev could use him, but then he'd RoD and get killed the next turn.

Marauder - comboslam is really cool, and he was made cheaper in MK2. When I compare it to the sheer ruggedness and damage potential of a Juggernaut, i cant help feeling jipped. Maybe in my Butcher lists i could swap it out with one Juggernaut, collateral damage with extra damage dice would be awesome. Assuming that works....

Spriggan - Ive always liked the look and feel of this model, but i dont like the price and relative vulnerability of the Spriggan. It has a nice Reach weapon, but Beasts is nicer. It can shoot grenades, that I will rarely do. Probably the best synergy the Spriggan has is with Irusk, but I just prefer bringing Beast 09 over the Spriggan if im only going to be using one Jack. And Irusk with 2 jacks defeats the purpose of Superiority, his bond and Fire for Effect - which would only be useful if I lost my Mortar crews. (Of course, positioned correctly, i could use Superiority on 2 Warjacks a turn, but this is going pretty overboard.)

Ill go into Solos and Infantry another time, but this has given me something to think about.


  1. I'm totally digging your site. Very good advice and you have similar playstyle to me. I just wanted to get your opinion on finalizing my army.

    I really like Wardog and Bokur for Esorscha tool. She has a 17 inch threat range and with the two of them you can feel much more confident going for it with DEF 18 in melee and ability to intercept a shot. The natural win conditions for the list are Beast to the face, WG mass CRA, and Sorscha Runefang to the face. Without Wardog and Bokur, I'm not sure you can have this win condition.

    So if Beast + Full WG + UA + Joe + 3 Rockets + Wardog + Bokur add up to 28, that leaves 13 left. Which combination would you take below?

    Great Bears/Widdowmakers/A&H - Widdows can get DEF 18, A&H have stealth, and WG have DEF 17. What can your opponent shoot at? I think A&H have real good synergy with WG and can give them magic sprays if needed or add to Sorscha's feat with +2 damage. Widdows and A&H are also 6 potential shots. Great Bears aren't a first charge unit, but would be deployed on the flanks with Widdows and charge in once the enemy has committed. I think this would be really good against Cryx, Cygnar, and Retribution.

    Min. Uhlans and 2 Mortars - Uhlans can be a first strike unit, can tie up ranged units, and can survive some damage unlike Great Bears. Mortars are very random with Esorscha since she has no way of boosting them. However, 2 mortars firing for 3 turns can still do some nice damage.

    *Kossites can be subbed in for the first configuration against Menoth.

    What are your opinions on these choices?

  2. Well, firstly, thanks for looking at my blog :)

    That is a very similar base to my lists that youve got going on there, I think that due to eSorchas vulnerability to get assassinated a Bokur and Wardog are very important.

    Your kill conditions are great, same as mine, Beast 09 can finish any fight and so can a volley of Winterguard (if theres enough left that get in range). Sorchas Runefang to the face I would leave as a last resort, as she has low MAT and is not really designed as an assassin - in saying that, she has Focus and that always helps.

    DEF18 wont save you if you fail though.

    With the 13 points you have left, and your two options youve given there, personally I would go with the top option. I find that Uhlans, especially without caster support and Kovnik Markov are not worth their very high points cost.

    The Great Bears are always magnificent, and might actually be a good target for Shatterstorm - something i struggle to find. Widowmakers are also a good alternative, allowing them to excel in an anti-infantry role. A+H were one of my all time favorite units in MK1 - where they were blatantly overpowered. To be honest, i havent fielded them once in MK2.

    However - I really like at least one Mortar on the field - i believe having a RNG20 high powered weapon is very important strategically. If forces your opponents to advance into your threat range, instead of the other way around.

    One Mortar is enough to get this strategic effect, but as i hope my opponents dont find out, one Mortar generally does nothing during a game. 2 Mortars are much more effective, and i use 2 in a lot of my lists as general anti-infantry workhorses. They have the added effect of destroying KD or stationary Warcasters/Warbeasts/Warjacks.

    Bad thing is - with the increase in relative price to 6 points total, that would only leave you with 7 remaining - not enough to get any 2 of the 3 combos you were thinking of.

    If you can live without Mortars (unfortunately, i dont seem to be able to!! :D) then the GB/WM/A+H would be the best secondary part to your army imo.

  3. Thanks Binz for the comments!

    Right now I'm leaning towards this config:

    Full WG + UA + Joe + 3 Rockets
    Great Bears
    Total: 41 pts

    I get the bombard that I didn't have before without using Mortars. Mortars are so expensive now and even if I scatter right, I always seem to roll low when it comes to damage time. I really like using the Destroyer's RAT 4 and then boosting it to give me a nasty sniper for solo hunting. I think Sorscha can run both jacks since her spell list has so many situational spells.

    I agree that the Bokur is more critical then Wardog. I love that he can intercept a round for ANY model within 2 inches and not just his client. Plan on keeping the WG officer and Sorscha near him since they are my 2 most important models.

    Do you think I should deploy Destroyer and Great Bears on a flank with Beast/WG/Sorscha in center? Or do you deploy GB inside the WG sphere so they can sneak out?

  4. I normally deploy the Destroyer next to the warcaster, so they can actually make use of their melee capability.

    Also helps with Zerkova - except for my last battle with her. Watcher doesnt trigger on place effects, only movement (stupid spirit door).

    GBs normally run on a flank, they require very little support if any, normally just Iron Flesh or something, and i use them as an evil deterrent to flanking me. The WG blob for me just advances straight to the enemy under Desperate Pace, Iron Flesh, Bob and Weave and Tough. This normally lets them advance 7" and survive most attacks. AOEs still kill them though.

    Looks like a tough list!

    have you got any battle reports with it/planning to write some? Ill be interested in reading how you got on!

  5. I actually don't own WG yet and have been proxying them with my IFP. I'm still waiting for MKII Khador book to come out to purchase them. I just want to get a peek at the tier armies and purchase accordingly.

    Do you think that E-Sorscha can run the Destroyer well? I think she has a lot of free focus with like 4/5 depending on if you want to recast IF. Boundless Charge and Cyclone are great spells, but not used every turn. Shatterstorm, Razorwind, and Freezing Grip are very situational.

    I guess I could run 2 mortars and Epic Eiryss. You've ran that formation before I think and how has it done?

  6. I think a Destroyer is better value than 2x mortars and eEiryss - eiryss of either kind gets targeted and killed verrry early on, and the problem with Mortars is that they can be ineffective without focus fire - at least so much as compared to a Destroyer.

    However, i still have to say that even aiming + boosting with a Destroyer, just tonight i missed a DEF10 Warjack. So, it can happen, and then its totally wasted.

    Two Mortars are a good choice for 6 points, but they have a specific role, anti-infantry and occasionally anti-heavy. Destroyers are a solid second Warjack, but i wouldnt take one as my main Warjack except maybe with Old Witch.

    eSorcha does have a lot of free Focus, but i think a Koldun Lord runs a Destroyer better personally! (not Jack Marshalled, just running along behind and giving a point of focus each turn). I like having Beast with eSorcha, giving him up to 3 focus a turn, upkeeping IF or recasting it for her last 3, then camping the remianing few. After turn 2, i normally expect Beast to be knee-deep in blood, and then he never wants to be short of focus.

    Cyclone is good just for the extra speed, i use it sometimes as a crappy Windrush, just longer range.

  7. Have you tried Doomreavers with E-Sorscha?

    My idea for this weekend is to try this:

    E-Sorscha +6
    Beast - 11
    Full WG + UA + Joe + 3 Rockets - 13
    Doomreavers - 6
    Great Bears -5
    Mortar - 3
    Mortar - 3
    Total: 41

    Great Bears are fearless and can move with Doomies on the flank creating a OMG flank that is a nightmare. The opponent has to choose between focusing on Beast + WG or Doomies/Great Bears. Not sure about the mortars, but they balance out my lack of ranged options. What do you think?